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Monday, 22 June 2009

Identity of Police Officers in Guardian Fitwatch Video

Three Fitwatch activists have lodged a complaint with the IPCC about their arrest and imprisonment at Climate camp last year. The story and video of this arrest was reported in The Guardian and picked up by a variety of news outlets.

However, most of the footage has obscured the details of the officers, but clearer pictures can be seen here.

Whilst we realise these are not FIT cops, given it's a story about Fitwatch, we thought it only fair we should name them - and it should be noted that EK127 Alan Palfrey, who is getting a bit of a reputation for turning a blind eye towards police violence, is seen skulking in the background.

Firstly, the Evidence Gatherers who filmed this footage:

10475 - Last - is the female officer
9038 - Sellan

8871 - Wiltshire
9589 - Sabcar

The officers involved in the arrest were:

PC 1259 - Nicholas Fisher - (I think - perhaps another fitwatcher could confirm - this is the heavily tattooed officer who is seen putting his hands around a fitwatcher's neck, and who is not wearing a number).

PC 5988 - Jessica Lawe - female cop

PC 6303 - Christopher Lawless (no, I'm not making this up)

PC 6509 - Davis

PC 5915 - Flint

As regular readers of the blog will realise, this was not an isolated incident in terms of Fitwatch, protest, or the country as a whole. However, it is great that this coverage has been generated, and we will continue to challenge this policing by whatever means we can.

86 comments:

Peter Dow said...

I saw the report on Channel 4 News and googled you all and I gave you a mention in my For Freedom Forums, here - UK police state brutalises 2 mothers for gathering evidence

Well of course, I would be very pleased if either Emily or Valerie or anyone in FIT Watch would like to register with the For Freedom Forums - not just to post as an ordinary member, though you would be welcome to do that, but also considering your experience perhaps also to have me set up a "FIT Watch" forum for you if you like (Or something more general perhaps? You say what you would like.) which you could moderate yourselves. Interested?

Peter Dow's Scottish National Standard Bearer website
The For Freedom Forums
Please register your own username and password
Here's how

Anonymous said...

Question to any cops who want to comment on here. What would you have done if you had been there during this incident? Would you have stopped your bully-boy mates from assaulting and pressure pointing (torturing) these women? Would you have been prepared to go to court to testify against these unidentified cops, or would you have shut up and taken pains to 'not see' it?
Answer these questions before you start whining about what a difficult job you do.

Anonymous said...

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090607_1.htm

I thought this was quite an interesting story to contrast with the story here. This is an example of what happens when the police misbehave in China, or allegedly misbehave, at least. You note that there are no photographsor film of what happened - it's just citizens' word against the police, but before long the discussion is only about how much compensation the people will get. Now, China is supposedly a police state, I don't think the have an IPCC-equivalent body. Yet in the UK, if the police beat you and detain you on trumped-up charges, there's actually no point making a complaint unless you have film to prove they're lying. Without film, Ian Tomlinson would have been an unfortunateheart attack victim who had no contact with police. Without film, Val and Emily would have been aggressive obstructivetypes who were lucky to be let off after 4 days.
When the police complaints system works better in China than the UK, I think we have some catching up to do.

Anonymous said...

All I saw were some very aggressive and rude women blaspheming and using profane language. I think the cops had you bang to rights, I'm afraid.

Whatever happened to peaceful protest ? Sorry, but if you were hoping to get a 'sympathy' vote from this, well you are no better than the imbeciles who threw eggs at the BNP because they are clearly unable to construct a decent and cogent argument.

C- Must do better.

Anonymous said...

Further to my comment above re China - if you read the whole of that page you'll see in that case the police weren't entirely in the wrong, so it's not a perfect parallel, but up to the point they're arguing about compensation, I think my comparison stands.

To the Anonymous above - a) they didn't swear until they were being beaten up, and b) they weren't arrested for swearing.

Anonymous said...

a 'sympathy vote? I don't think they're looking for sympathy mate, I think they're trying to raise awareness of the UK's descent into a police state.

Anonymous said...

Because the police aren't actually a borg like collective like most people think they are I think its likely that cops would assume that their colleagues would have had some justification for this, i'm not saying they did or didn't, but that is how they are supposed to operate, they are supposed to be able to trust their colleagues to behave lawfully.

Really Fit said...

No, getting this story in the public domain was definitely NOT about getting sympathy. Sympathy we don't need, it's some action we could do with.

It hasn't come out as much as I'd have liked it too in the press, but I repeatedly stated that the point of all this is to show how normal and everyday this sort of police behaviour is. It isn't just Ian Tomlinson, it isn't just us, it's lots of people, every day, for commiting minor or non-existent offences.

The police consider themselves to be above the law. They think they can behave pretty much as they want. We can either accept that this is the sort of society we want to live in, or do something about it.

Anonymous said...

Also present was PS464 Rob Stabler who assisted in getting female away from search area.
I can comfirm identity of PC1259 fisher as he was one of the arresting officers.

Anonymous said...

Did I mention that it is quite erotic and gratifying sexually to watch women getting a bit 'roughed up by the rozzers' ??


[only kidding, but I bet you love it really...]

Anonymous said...

So, let me get this right ?

You think it is unacceptable to have your picture taken without your consent ?

So your response is to take pictures of others, without worrying about whether they want to have their pic taken or not ??

p.s. A handy hint - if you don't like having pressure points applied to your neck, maybe the obvious solution is to do what the nice Police Constable says. Okay, you may not WANT to do that, but don't then complain if they take action you may not approve of as a result.

You've made your bed, so lie in it.

Anonymous said...

By the way, as this is 'Fit Watch', can I just say that Emily Apple is not quite as fit as that other bird in the video..

Clovis said...

anonymous 1227

i'm pleased to see that you acknowledge there's something wrong about taking people's pictures without their consent. perhaps if more of cops took that attitude, or managed to remain within the confines of the law they're sworn to uphold, there would be fewer pictures taken of them in response. incidentally, while i don't know what the sussex chief constable thinks of pictures being taken of his officers, the deputy commissioner of the met's said in public that it's all ok with him. given the hierarchical nature of the police, that suggests that it doesn't matter too much what the individual met plod thinks about it.

as for doing what the cop says, until there's a requirement to comply with what filth say, i'll not bother.

remember, you're the servants not the masters.

Anonymous said...

-'p.s. A handy hint - if you don't like having pressure points applied to your neck, maybe the obvious solution is to do what the nice Police Constable says. Okay, you may not WANT to do that, but don't then complain if they take action you may not approve of as a result.

You've made your bed, so lie in it.'-

I can only assume you are plod to come out with trite shite like that - these women were acting completely within their rights asking for identification of people purporting to be police officers when they were attacked, or 'action you may not approve of' as you call it. And if they shouldn't complain when they are assaulted - that means the police can do anything they like to anyone they wish and everyone should just accept it.

Some of us no longer live in caves my friend, and try to ensure those we trust with power use it responsibly and according to the law they purport to uphold. Policing by consent mean anything to you?

Anonymous said...

doncha luvvit when we note the appearance of yesterday's men.

When I read of the "fit birds" and so on, I smell the foul stench of last century's pigpen.

Just listen to the one who affectionately points out "that it is quite erotic and gratifying sexually to watch women getting a bit 'roughed up by the rozzers'".

Speaks volumes.

Anonymous said...

"When I read of the "fit birds" and so on, I smell the foul stench of last century's pigpen."

Have you ever stopped to consider that your charmless sense of humour failure, oh, and calling the 'thin blue line' between us and criminals 'filth' may explain why you have so little support for your otherwise sensible cause.

Still it gives you something to do all day and fill your empty little heads with. It almost makes me want to be a police super-grass and snitch on you to the SOCA and Anti-Terror Police..

Just think, in another country the cops wouldn't be so patient, they would take you to the cells and the only 'charging' they would be doing us shoving an electrified truncheon up your front bottom until you begged for mercy.

See life in this country ain't so bad really is it ?

Anonymous said...

"All I saw were some very aggressive and rude women blaspheming and using profane language. I think the cops had you bang to rights, I'm afraid.

Whatever happened to peaceful protest ? Sorry, but if you were hoping to get a 'sympathy' vote from this, well you are no better than the imbeciles who threw eggs at the BNP because they are clearly unable to construct a decent and cogent argument.

C- Must do better."


This is hardly a useful contribution.

Aside from whether there was blasphemy involved (a personal judgement to my mind), what the video appears to show is two women exercising their right to identify individual police officers, who are required by law to display their identification nos at all times.

These women were arrested for reasons that seem unclear, detained and released without charge 4 days later. Given the footage, the arrest does appear rather dubious and this is supported by the fact that no charge could be found after 4 days. The arrest itself seems somewhat brutal given there appears zero risk to the police concerned.

It would of course be an offence (and a serious one) for the police to arrest someone without cause.

As for the BNP analogy, it's unclear why you think lawful protest is similar to egg-throwing (which is common assault)

Comments like yours may help explain why the UK police seem able to skirt (break?) the law with such impunity.

FItwatch has done well to raise this issue - we can see how the IPCC respond.

Tantrumfly said...

A few years ago I was arrested for having an epileptic fit after being assaulted. I was denied medical attention whilst in the cells and my attacker was never charged. Last year my 12 and 13year old son and daughter were attacked and robbed by a rascist gang of seven teenagers in a park, despite witnesses and subsequent identification of six of the seven teenagers. My two children were charged with assault for pushing the attackers off them when they were beaten to the ground and trying to defend themselves.The attackers faced no consequences. I have no faith in the Police and believe thay are corrupt, biased and only choose to have the job because it gives them power and control over others in their lives. I would not go out of my way to save a policeman from a violent end. I do not sell my goods to police officers in uniform, and I do not provide services within my business to them either. When the ones that dont commit the offences against the public, start standing up for what is right, then I'll start to treat them as a profession worthy of respect. Until then my binmen get more respect.

S. Potter said...

I have posted this posting to my tumblelog at:
http://bit.ly/rI40M

S. Potter said...

BTW Are you on Twitter yet?

Anonymous said...

I honestly don't see what you guys hope to achieve, everything you seem to do is fundamentally wrong. Fact.

Grow up, noone cares and only a small minority listen, you want to campaign or kick a fuss up about something? Make sure its something worth while, not disrupting police officers. You can walk safely down the street, go out of your home in the morning and feel confident that your not going to get robbed or mugged on your doorstep (generally speaking), thats down to the police who believe it or not you owe a lot to. Grow up for fuck sake.

Anonymous said...

I honestly don't see what you guys hope to achieve, everything you seem to do is fundamentally wrong. Fact.

Grow up, noone cares and only a small minority listen, you want to campaign or kick a fuss up about something? Make sure its something worth while, not disrupting police officers. You can walk safely down the street, go out of your home in the morning and feel confident that your not going to get robbed or mugged on your doorstep (generally speaking), thats down to the police who believe it or not you owe a lot to. Grow up for fuck sake.

Oh here we go another copper lover....did you not watch the video or are you just annoyed at the fact you weren't one of the rent a mob who took part in this shameful act? The police are not above the law....or rather they shouldn't be above the law but lets face it from everything that has come out about the police beating not just protesters but members of the public as well as serving members of the armed forces they really do seem to be above the law.

People do care and a vast MAJORITY are paying close attention to what is happening and FITWatch are gathering numbers by the day. Even my father (god bless him) is keeping an eye on what FITWatch has to say. People have had enough of police abusing the law in whatever way they can. This video shows the police abusing their powers and you just want to state about how all of this is silly and how we can feel safe walking our streets because of the police....what a load of toss...no one feels safe walking the streets and the MAJORITY of people I know would never call upon the police for assistance as the police do bugger all. Christ I had a mate who was attacked and phoned 999 that day....police turned up two weeks later....yeah thats really helping isn't it!!!!!

So why don't you go and grow up and rewire your brain to a state where it isn't so brain washed and actually look at what the police do...there maybe a SMALL MINORITY of police who do a good job but that minority is becoming smaller by the year.

FITWatch are doing a brilliant job...time and again they have shown the police up for what they really are....the police started filming the demonstraters well before the demonstraters decided to film them...the difference is unlike F.I.T Fitwatch actually show people (police) breaking the law whilst the police just flim anybody who wants to express their human right of free speech and the right to demonstrate.

Anonymous said...

I honestly don't see what you guys hope to achieve, everything you seem to do is fundamentally wrong. Fact.

Grow up, noone cares and only a small minority listen, you want to campaign or kick a fuss up about something? Make sure its something worth while, not disrupting police officers. You can walk safely down the street, go out of your home in the morning and feel confident that your not going to get robbed or mugged on your doorstep (generally speaking), thats down to the police who believe it or not you owe a lot to. Grow up for fuck sake.


Utter, utter bollocks.

oida said...

A few comments and a question...

Regarding 'doing what the nice police' says - there are a lot of assumptions being made in the statement that need to be recognised: 1. the copper is nice, 2. what the copper is saying to do is the best thing to do for your safety and dignity and 3. that the people being arrested would not have been mistreated if they had complied. Recongition and exploration of these assumptions should allow a few new lines of thought and an acceptance of alternative endings.

I think it's also important to remember that the police are there to protect and even if the women were swearing or taunting or anything like that, the police don't need to react with violence and in fact, should be trained to keep the peace in a civilised manner. In the video, it's pretty obvious that they got rough without trying diplomacy.

For those who would assume the police are working in our best interests, I only hope you're right but the evidence appears to point in the other direction. It seems to be what you are espousing is complacency and obedience without question - this is not the mark of a free society.

For those who would say we don't have it so bad, you are right - it's not the worst it could be. That doesn't mean we allow it be a little bit bad. If I punch you in the face, do you accept it because I could have stabbed you and I didn't? Of course not. The idea that some abuse of the law is okay only leads to further abuse of the law. How much is too much?

My question is: since that new law came in about photographing police, how has this affected Fitwatch's work? What's the situation legally?

Thanks.

jonsparta said...

Tantrumfly...I have no faith in the Police and believe thay are corrupt, biased and only choose to have the job because it gives them power and control over others in their lives. I would not go out of my way to save a policeman from a violent end.

I am sorry to here about your kids being assaulted. I cant speak for the Glasgow police but i doubt that treatment would happen in my force. All allergation of racist assault are treated on a fast track bases by CPS and are a piority for my Division. But i must state that the police have no say in the charging decision with racially aggravated crimes, something most do not understand, that is left to CPS. Before the worst creation in the criminal justice system came to power (eg CPS) most if not all assault were charged and sent to court. For the most part CPS lawyers only go to court if they have 80% chance of getting a conviction.

Again we have no say over the werid and wonderful way our courts work. I have seen CPS time and time again let out rapists and serious violent offenders only for them to commit more crimes. The law is slightly different in scotland but you should not have been treated in that way.

As for your comments, i would step in to stop anyone from meeting a violent end. I have fought off a group of 'normal middle-class people' in a lovely area from killing a male that had been identified as a paedophile. Should i have left him to be hurt/killed? Would that be human of me? Many times i have heard people say that we should kill them or lock them up for good...could you sleep at night if a young police woman was beaten to death in front of you. I doubt it but if you think that is ok, i wont try and change your mind. But for me, i will go on answering calls, getting assaulted and will defend anyone who is in fear because it is the right thing to do. I know it is almost impossible for our paths to cross but if you or your family were in danger or needed help i would give it to you without bias even if you hated me and the uniform i wear. Many be its old fashioned to say and many would laugh but i consider it to a honour to serve the public and feel duty bound to do all in my power to keep people say and criminals off the street. I know in my Division i serve with many like minded people, that is why i chose to work their.

Also, I love your website, some of my family are into glass making. Pity you dont sell to the likes of me...

jonsparta said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Yet again pissing in the wind fit watch!

The officers can comfortably justify their use of force and all of the home office approved techniques used.

It was amusing to watch you acting so pathetic in the video interview playing life's victims and I failed to see any extracts in the video of how you usually behave at demos.

How many times do you have to get nicked, charged and convicted before you give up and grow up.

The sympathy vote is there, loud and clear - mother of 3 bla bla bla. Question : What do your kids think about you dressing in black hoodies and taking photos of people trying to do their job?

Who is the better role model, the police officer who would save life for a member of the public or a truculent creature hell bent on stirring a peaceful demo!

Anonymous said...

stirring a peaceful demo? what's that when it's at home?

Anonymous said...

"The officers can comfortably justify their use of force and all of the home office approved techniques used.....

How many times do you have to get nicked, charged and convicted before you give up and grow up.....

Who is the better role model, the police officer who would save life for a member of the public or a truculent creature hell bent on stirring a peaceful demo!"

I appreciate it's unfortunate if facts get in the way, but one of the issues here is that not only were the pair not convicted, there wasn't even any charge brought after 4 days. Just an apparently dubious arrest.

And although the techniques may or may not be home office approved (it's quite a different question whether they're justified in this context - I have very great doubts), it is an offence for police officers to deliberately hid their identification nos as appeared to happen here (and happened during G20 demos).

The reputation of the police seems at such a low ebb, it stretches credibility to suggest they are good role models - I think very few people would believe that.

The concerns that many people have is that the aggressive overreaction in this video suggests the police (and the home office?) have a culture which is simply not compatible with that fact that they are apolitical public servants there to protect and to serve. They have a long way to go to gain public respect and trust - the sooner they understand this the better for all of us.

Clawsy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

If there are any good ones then they need to step in and stop their colleagues from breaking the law and assaulting people!

Until that happens I have No respect for any police. None whatsoever.

It was very disturbing watching this film. I do not feel safe when police like this are about! Get rid of them!

FIT Watch said...

Jonsparta wrote in a deleted comment:

"I noticed that adivce was given that you dont need to give details of your name and address if you are a subject of a PACE Section1 stop and search. Thats wrong, if refuse you could be arrested, as one we cant issue a stop/search ticket and two if it is thought you are giving false details you will be arrested."

I don't normally comment on deleted posts, but I will do on this occasion because yours shows the complete ignorance of the law many cops have, and is a perfect example of the type of policing we are trying to resist. Obviously you have been told by someone you've got this completely wrong, but you were sure enough to post it as a comment, which surely means you would have been prepared to arrest (and which incidentally would have meant they would have been entitled to use reasonable force to resist such an arrest).

Unlike the police, we research the law before we offer advice on it.

And, just for the record you do NOT have to give the police any personal information with regards to any stop and search unless you are the driver of a car.

However, on another matter, I agree with you:

"But for me, i will go on answering calls, getting assaulted and will defend anyone who is in fear because it is the right thing to do."

This is exactly the same position I am coming from. I won't sit around while people are getting hurt, or having the rights abuse. I will continued to fight and defend people from attacks. It's just a shame you can't adopt this attitude when dealing with the appalling actions of many police officers on the streets today.

Anonymous said...

"If there are any good ones then they need to step in and stop their colleagues from breaking the law and assaulting people!

Until that happens I have No respect for any police. None whatsoever.

It was very disturbing watching this film. I do not feel safe when police like this are about! Get rid of them!

25 June 2009 02:52"


Even though the huge majority of officers in the country weren't there, have never met these people and have no desire to, thats a sound decision making process you've got going there then!

jonsparta said...

FIT WATCH - I don't normally comment on deleted posts -

Then dont! i was very tired and preparing a essay for university. I have to admit that comment was mixed up with the ASB act and the Terrorism act that i was reading. Very boring indeed, i was getting tired and got the sections mixed up. Under the ASB act a officer is allowed to arrest a person if they believe that a person is involved in ASB and they refuse to give their details or it is believed that have given false details. This power is more often used by PCSO's when detaining a person. A officer will arrive and if they cant find out their details they are arrested. A interesting power considering how easily you can bend it to your needs. I was comparing it to the powers in the Terrism acts past by the ever so corrupt gov.

You lot must have been in bed early last night, hardly any comments, I have to join a American blog last night! lol.

faceless said...

more power to all involved in your group.

I wish I'd been there to help defend you both. I might have been arrested too, but at least a few of them would have been left with sore faces.

jonsparta said...

That might have landed you in a cell. Still the way things are going CPS would have let you out anyway. The courts, which i doubt it would have got too, would have told you off and set you free. Welcome to the Great British Justice system....lol.

Anonymous said...

Some of the views expressed here are just disgusting. To kick off with "I would not go out of my way to save a policeman from a violent end." as 'Tantrumfly' so eloquently pointed out, that just makes me sick in the pit of my stomach. If you read this Tantrumfly your an idiot and how you can expect your views to be taken seriously after having written that, god only knows.

I also love the fact that you all seem to have pretty much no qualms in generalizing across the police as a whole "The police consider themselves to be above the law. They think they can behave pretty much as they want.". Now I can say with the upmost certainty that noone here has had contact with the majority of the police so how can someone make blind and sweeping judgements such as this leaves me somewhat bewildered.

From what I've gathered off many comments here it seems many of the pro FIT Watch relish any opportunity to have a go at the police, its like you want them to mess up or do something wrong and you'll only ever see them in a bad light. The police are fighting an uphill battle against public opinion and 'movements' such as these don't help anyone.

One of the tactics you guys seem to adopt is to follow police round, gather round them in meetings etc. Now lets just hypothesize that when you go to work a gang of people follow you around all day, blocking you and generally making your job extremely difficult, what would your response be? I have no doubt you'd go crying harassment or something similar, the police have the power to arrest you, at the end of the day in that setting they're doing an important job, one which they cannot afford to mess up because of your (FIT Watch) actions, what do you expect or more to the point what did you want to happen? Part of me thinks you want things like this to happen as it gives this group a purpose, a picture to take or a note to write.

Many of you also seem to say that the police act like this all the time, they don't, I can assure you of that. In the few dealings I've had with the police I can say I've never had any problems with them. Now I'm going to speculate and say that the problem is that many of you will be approaching police encounters with the mentality that they're in the wrong or they're scum or pigs, if you don't show them respect, the sort of respect that anyone deserves regardless of profession then having bad encounters is to be expected.

Cont below:

Anonymous said...

Cont:

Obviously there's going to be some bad apples in the Police Force as there will be in any job in life, its unavoidable. But these sort of blatant fallacious statements about the Police disregard the fact that the Police go out and risk their life's to protect you and me everyday, all the more it seems the sacrifices the police make are ignored and instead petty (C'mon to be fair this FIT watch is petty, well at least I reckon it is) groups such as this get the limelight.

I also want to highlight this:

'This video shows the police abusing their powers and you just want to state about how all of this is silly and how we can feel safe walking our streets because of the police....what a load of toss...no one feels safe walking the streets....there maybe a SMALL MINORITY of police who do a good job but that minority is becoming smaller by the year.'

I don't know about you but I feel safe walking the streets, I always have done, where do you walk?!

I wish the media would pick up on this sort stuff more often: http://www.policememorial.org.uk/Home.htm

And less of FIT Watch and similar groups.

Heres an extract from the above website, fingers crossed some of you will think about it:

'Within these pages are the names of many heroes and heroines but mostly the names of ordinary men and women – fathers and mothers, husbands and wives, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, partners, friends and colleagues. What makes them extraordinary is not how they died but how they lived - doing an often dangerous and thankless job, forgotten until needed - protecting the community for which, in the course of their duties, they lost their lives.'

Tar-rar.

jonsparta said...

Anonymous 25 June 2009 11:04

Thank you for your words. I will let you into a little know story. When it was first stated by Michael WINNER that the police should have their memorial to those that have fallen in the line of duty, he phoned 10 Downing Street and they stated, and i quote "they are only police officer, no one cares."

Great coming from the PM's office...

Anonymous said...

Seems bizarre that this site blames the police for the country becoming a police state. I happen to agree that the police have far too many unnecessary powers designed to curtail civil liberties. However targeting the police is like blaming kermit for molesting miss piggy when its Jim Henson (government) pulling the strings. I grant this analogy is poor. Futhermore, if corruption is so rife in the police then why do you target front line officers and not management where the tactics come from. Im not suggesting you target anyone with the pathetic and crude tactics you use. Perhaps if you apply yourselves to your cause people will take you seriously. You do more to undermine the real and serious cases.

Anonymous said...

If we are going to have serious discussion about this then I think we need a fitwatch discussion forum with a threaded discussion capability.

jonsparta said...

I was just looking through your photo collection eg flickr. Although there is a lot of pictures, most are of the same people. You dont have one of any of the covert static or runner teams, none of the SFIT or their counter part in CID (lazy bums). Most of these team will be used by CTU team around the UK but will be the most part involved in the security teams for 2012 Games.

Really Fit said...

In my street yesterday, there were two police officers. Did I go and photograph them? No. Did I get in their way, follow them around, hassle them? No. They were there to support paramedics trying to get into the house of my neighbour, who had not been seen for a few days. That is useful work, that benefits the community.

On demonstrations I see forward intelligence teams filming and photographing protesters. I see them abusing stop and search and other powers to find out who people are. I know that they put details of individuals on a police database, regardless of whether or not they have committed an offence. I see them frightening and intimidating people who, according to the police, are seen in the 'wrong' company.

Do I take their photograph? Do I get in their way, follow them around, hassle them? Damn right. Because the job that they are doing is not acceptable.

This site does not treat all police the same. Do you see here pictures of police working in other units? You won't even find many of the TSG. We focus exclusively on surveillance police. The ones that stand outside meetings seeing who is involved. The ones that build up protester databases. The ones that kettle and cordon and seek to absolutely control political protest.

What do we want to achieve? That's simple. We want this to stop.

As for going for the government not the police, well that argument gets a little circular. I am involved because I was so shocked by the tactics forward intelligence teams used to stop people protesting against the government before the iraq war, and during the G8 in Scotland. If the police actively undermine protest against government, they can't really complain when they become the target.

And as for putting officers at risk, what nonsense. If police are at risk of attack I'd suggest it was down to the way they have angered and alienated themselves from such a large section of society.

Anonymous said...

Well put, Really Fit

Listen to them whinge.

'Oh dear, look at these awful people. They are taking our photographs, sniffle, and oooohh no, they are putting them on a data base!!!'
'I don't think I can take it any more, I'll just stay here in the canteen where it's warm and safe and nobody complains when I hide my number, hide my face and whack women arund the face, legs and neck.'

Your time is coming to an end. The world is changing - assault civilians and your face is immediately everywhere. If you don't like that - well a great many do.

jonsparta said...

I'll just stay here in the canteen where it's warm and safe and nobody complains when I hide my number, hide my face and whack women arund the face, legs and neck.'

lol. first we dont have canteens and second i dont whack anyone. Not unless they attack me first....

jonsparta said...

Really Fit -

I seriously doubt the vast majority of the public have lst faith as most never think of the poilce unless they call us. My force have one of the highest scores for satisfaction with the police. This work it carried out every month, in every division by a independent company using door to door and phone calls. Also every sgt dip samplies all the calls every officer attends. Funny because we are seeing signifcant rise in satisfaction in the most crime-ridden areas. I think this might have something to do with Wilson and Kelling 'Broken Windows' theory.

Second i showed you comments to my family, my wife's words could never be printed. My force use to put up every officers names and collar numbers but after a series of attacks on their homes and families they stop doing that. Most were caused by a family that control the vast amount of the drugs trade.

I am due in court with a male that was charged with a section 47 assault on myself. He thought it would be good idea to turn up at my house and scare the shit out of my family. If a officer is tracked through your website and is attacked, how will that make you feel? good? or will you just not feel anything...

I have no doubts that you and your fellow FIT watchers would use the informaiton you have gathered correctly. But remember that there are some that would happily hurt a officer or their family. What i would say is that for every action you take there will be a reaction.

As for kettling etc, i suppose the home office will start us training in snatch squads and the like again. Something i would totally disagee with. I have been on many demo's/ events and most of the time they have been good natured and even fun. I will say that there seems to be in the last couple of years a small element that comes along to cause trouble. I have seen organisers time and time again try to resitrain them but have to call us in to remove them.

My final point, do you know all officer will be headcam trained by the end of the year. I have used them on patrol and at events. The last event we had nearly every officer with one, the usual complainats came in and the IPCC investigation found every complainat to be bull shit. (Not that officers dont over step the mark, before you start.) But it will stop the use of digression. I am not really a fan, i have enough to carry but the gov thinks its a great idea. What do you think?

Anonymous said...

headcams all round eh??

let's hope that they are not supplied by the same company as the ones on 7/7 or down the tube during the De Menezes extra-judicial execution/murder when all the cameras "were found to be off, guv - honest guv".
Cameras off please - and now -
ten to the head when he's safely pinioned - yes.

Anonymous said...

headcams all round eh??

let's hope that they are not supplied by the same company as the ones on 7/7 or down the tube during the De Menezes extra-judicial execution/murder when all the cameras "were found to be off, guv - honest guv".
Cameras off please - and now -
ten to the head when he's safely pinioned - yes.

jonsparta said...

ten to the head when he's safely pinioned - yes.

lol. so you were there! The cameras need to be come lighter, they even have the a setting for a live feed. Always good evidence with people carying on during an arrest, courts love it. keep it up.

Anonymous said...

Really Fit @ 0155.

Being from the other side of this fence I'm pleased to say that your post makes a lot of sense to me. I don't entirely agree that there is no place for police photographers etc, but I'll take the common ground as a big positive and be more receptive in future given your opening of my eyes that you do distinguish between cops doing different tasks.

Dave said...

This is a very simple matter really.

Someone acting rather like a police officer was not displaying their number and refused to identify themselves.

It is illegal for a genuine police officer to refuse to identify themselves. (Does anyone posting here dispute this?)

Therefore, this "police officer" was asked to identify themselves by two members of the public, who were subsequently and violently arrested, held in a cell for four days and then released without charge.

This is an absolute cut-and-dry case of the police breaking the law, being caught on camera, and then using their legal monopoly on violence to suppress members of the public who were acting non-violently and entirely within the law.

The main law-breaker in this clip is the man pretending to be a police officer, while not identifying himself as one.

When someone - who could as well have been a member of the public - grabs you and uses violence against you, that is called "assault".

Ironically enough, this sequence of events - minus the completely excessive violence and eventual arrest - is the exact same thing that happened to me at the Heathrow climate camp when I challenged the masked-up, tooled-up, number-less riot police who jumped out of vans and physically restrained us for doing nothing other than walking along a residential street in the direction of a planned peaceful protest.

Police acting outside of the law and having the audacity to try and get away with it (even resorting to violence and false arrest) is commonplace, in even my limited experience.

Police acting politically and anti-democratically against members of the public who dare to take to the streets to exercise their democratic right to protest about the government is also extremely common, in my experience. In fact, it's so common it's utterly predictable nowadays.

If those who are supposed to be upholding the law, and protecting "democracy" can't even be bothered to follow the law themselves, or act anti-democratically, then what do they expect?

Nobody is under any legal obligation to do what a potentially bogus police officer tells them to do. That is why it is our legal right to request the identity of a "police officer" when it cannot be readily established!

As for the "Independent" Police Complaints Commission - don't even get me started on them! Suffice to say they are a complete joke, and a waste of space who have literally allowed some of the most devious, power-crazed murderers to walk free, right back to their positions of "authority" over us.

The IPCC are about as "Independent" as a Tesco Metro "local" shop!

Anonymous said...

I'm a little surprised the police officers who post on here aren't more angry about the behaviour of their colleagues who refuse to identify themselves and assault and falsely arrest people. Next time someone refuses to co-operate with you, maybe it's because of those tossers giving you all a bad name. However, we never see another officer trying to intervene in these cases, do we? They all stand around and let it happen. I wouldn't piss on a policeman if he was on fire. Can you think of any case of a police officer interveningto prevent a false arrest, to require a fellow officer to show his number when asked, or to stop a fellow officer assaulting the public?

Anonymous said...

well, to be fair, there has recently been the case of the waterboarding police torturers from Enfield being shopped by one of the police personnel who was present during the torture. This has not been especially publicised, but when, as in this case, an officer backs up the victims' accounts, then action has to be taken, and the truth faced.
So there is one good example of a decent and indeed an heroic policeman - or woman.

Anonymous said...

so it has to get to torture first? and even then the officer involved doesn't seem to have remonstrated at the time but raised it afterwards.

Anonymous said...

According to a report in the paper this week the torture took the form of turning a tap on whilst a suspect was taking a piss, the investigators have now admitted there is no foundation to the torture claims, only the theft claims to dfal with now.

jonsparta said...

So there is no case to answer?
It was all made up by a criminal that thought he could get anyway with his crimes if he made up allergation against coppers??

lol. its a old tactic and one that i see time and time again. A suspect stated i beat her up in a van, gave me number and everything...Still IPCC thought there was no case to answer because i was on holiday!!
She had remembered my number from when i came around a few months earlier and took a statement. Which was her as a victim of domestic violence....

I have to admit the IPCC did check everyones numbers to make sure they couldnt be confused with mine.

As for the "Independent" Police Complaints Commission - don't even get me started on them! Suffice to say they are a complete joke, and a waste of space who have literally allowed some of the most devious, power-crazed murderers to walk free, right back to their positions of "authority" over us.


errr...can say much to that. Must have had a bad up bringing. Did your dad not hold you enough or did her infact hold you too much????? lol. (yes laughing at you.)


I wouldn't piss on a policeman if he was on fire. Can you think of any case of a police officer interveningto prevent a false arrest, to require a fellow officer to show his number when asked, or to stop a fellow officer assaulting the public?

Yes, i can think of several. We have a necessity test that came in a couple of years ago, if you convince a custody Sergeant to detain them, its on their head. They are very difficult to get past because they could lose their job if they has a false detention. Also the going sum in my force is about £1000.00 per hour for a false detention but thats only in a police cell. To get your money you have to convince a judge. Never seen a officer or PCSO assault a member of the public. And why would you know, do we have to put it up on a message board everytime. ha ha.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, no case to answer, how strange. Wild but interesting accusation about police hits headlines and bandwagon is jumped upon by people who don't know what happened, weren't there or have only watched an edited video. I'm sure it was a one off, normally people are so level headed about these things!!

scunnert said...

Cops on this thread - Vee are heroes protecting zee public und venn vee beat you for no reason vee are only following orders.

Dip shits.

Anonymous said...

Scunnert obviously has not understood a word that has been written here, and wahts with the irish accent?

Anonymous said...

I've only just found out about Fit watch... keep up the good work!

Anyway, as for the comments on here left by police officers - They're quite amusing... it's just like hearing an 11 year old girl defending her favourite boy-band after a particularly poor live performance!

"OMG billy had a cold and pete was sad after his gerbil died and jonny is a virgo which means he shouldn't sing on sundays so they couldn't sing properly... YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU *cry-whinge-sob*"

And to any other police officers who read this - need you be reminded that you work for society, not the other way around?

Stop trying to defend the indefensible and do your jobs properly.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:-

"According to a report in the paper this week the torture took the form of turning a tap on whilst a suspect was taking a piss, the investigators have now admitted there is no foundation to the torture claims, only the theft claims to dfal with now.

27 June 2009 02:54"

In order to not be exposed as a useless troll, you must give a citation in support of your claims.
You're not down the nick now.

What paper?? where and when??

just put your link on the page here, or you must accept that your claim can not be taken seriously -
nor the comments which follow from your compadres or mates or whomsoever..

Anonymous said...

Hi guys. Just to say, I loved the Alex Jones interview.
You handled him really well. I'm interested that anarchists could get on so well with a libertarian.

I'm with the anti capitalists myself, but without freedom we can't even have that debate.

Anonymous said...

The Police = The Enemy.

Micro chipped, Power hungry little runts who will all be jailed for their New World Order complicity.

And their families.

Protect and serve? Yeah they protect the Mason's Lodge.

Scum.

bartman said...

The comments from anonymous have clearly been put up their to stir up trouble and hate on this blog. Anonymous is probably a cop from the TSG or other covert police organisation. Dont fall for it ... everyone with a brain knows this is simple police brutality because the police are only there to serve the elite and not to prevent crime and protect the public. The girls here are doing right to show who the criminals faces in this assault .. but just ignore anonymous comments because he is just try and wind you up and to encourage hate writing on this blog

THE CROWN said...

Good work girls you are brave and MANY MANY people are behind you.

If we are to have any hope in restoring democracy and halting the growing police state in this country it's very important to understand that we must think about VERY carefully about our approach.

Remember, it's the duty of the police to uphold the peace. They answer to us, we do NOT answer to them. Just as Politicians are elected to represent and serve us, THEY answer to us, not the other way round.

Sadly, we now see the police have become pawns for the government and indoctrinated with fictitious laws and leglislation. A REAL policeman will know the difference between common law and statute (corporate) law.

Now there are a few good, honest, moral policemen and women out there who understand their duty is to serve and protect the public, and uphold COMMON law. HOWEVER, haven't we all noticed, that while common law offences have shot through the roof (theft, mugging, stealing, raping, GBH, child abuse, knife crime etc)it seems that those who perpetrate these crimes just keep getting let off scott free.

Pathetic excuses such as "lack of evidence" (oh apart from being caught in the act...?) or "the prisons are full".

Meanwhile, in the last 10 years we have seen (thanks to Nu-Leibour)over 3000 new leglislations and statutes being bought into existance. RIPA being the most notorious. You have to be living in cloud cuckoo land to think that our civil liberties have not been savagely eroded. If you still doubt that that they have then I very much recommend a book by Dominic Raab "Assault on Liberty" to open your eyes.

THE CROWN said...

Now, think to yourself, what is the primary purpose of all these new "anti-terror" and RIPA acts (they are just that - ACTs, not real!)is to extract money from the public for petty misdemeanours, and to intimidate and bully anyone who dares to stand up and defend their civil liberties. It all begins to make sense when you realise that -

a) your local police force is in fact a corporate business, and as we all know every business needs to make PROFIT. Our policemen and women have been conned into acting as Corporote Policy Enforcement Officers. It may Surprise you to know that Devon and Cornwall Police is actually owned by IBM. If you dont believe me check it out on Dunn & Bradstreet.

b) the public's growing mistrust and simmering resentment towards "authority", and the culture of police brutality has been artificially fostered ON PURPOSE because in the next few months the engineered economic collapse will result in hyperinflation leading to mass unemployment, scarce food, mass hunger, and ultimately riots. These riots give the government Carte Blanche to introduce martial law, and once that kicks into effect then the police force will have been conditioned into acting in the interests of the government and not the people. By that time, the evil Lisbon Treaty will have been ratified (unless we try and stop it's ratification ASAP) and you may wish to know that EU have effectively re-instated the death penalty via a footnote in the EU constitution:

"The death penalty cause is not even in the treaty, but in a footnote, because with the European Union reform treaty, we accept also the European Union Charter, which says that there is no death penalty, but then, and also in a footnote, it says: “except in the case of war, riots, upheaval” — then the death penalty is possible." Professor Schachtschneider states.

Sneaky, devious, and pure evil. THIS can only lead to one thing:
people like FIT watch, people like you and me, and other "political dissidents" will be shot for daring to speak out. THis is no exagurration. This is where things are leading. There are some good policemen out there, but for as long as they look on and do nothing, then evil will continue to flourish.

It absolutely breaks my heart to see history repeating itself. After all the horrors of the KGB, Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia etc, have we learnt NOTHING?

If there are any police officers out there, please start asking yourself questions, who are you serving? The people of the country or the establishment? And if the latter, then when you are held to account in 20 years time for crimes against humanity, will you use the excuse "I was only following orders?" Please, think about that, VERY, VERY carefully.

THE CROWN said...

As for the people of this country, be wise in your actions and words, DO NOT fall into the trap that they are laying, DO NOT incite violence, hatred, anarchy, rioting, for then you play into their hands.

What we need is LAWFUL REBELLION not UNLAWFUL ANARCHY.

DO educate yourselves about the law and the difference between REAL law (common law) and fictitious (statute law). DO exercise your civil liberties by photographing and documenting UNJUST and UNLAWFUL police behaviour, as they will one day be held to account for their actions.
DO use humour, grace and goodwill when talking with police even if they are standoffish or trying to put themselves above you (when they say "do you understand me?" what they are really saying is "do you stand under me?" therefore exercise your civil rights and say "NO, I do not understand you."

Remember we are free human beings, we are all born equal, we all die equal, and nobody but God can judge our actions.

pliskin619 said...

great interview on alex jones
cheers to the fit watch teams
hey guys and gals
i have a plan to change the world for everyones benifit
www.freethegreenenergy.blogspot
if you like it tell 3 people
i cant change the world alone but i can spread the plan ...the idea
that even the farmer in africa can benifit from.

jonsparta said...

To the Crown:

The officer i work with, believe they work for the community, most have grown up in it. We are servants of the Crown, eg the Queen. Over the last few decades different gov's have tried to get hold of the police and create a national police, like in Europe. This i completely hate, remember the Labour gov's attempt to force us to merge?

We must stop this. Political interfence will only result in more us vs them problems. I believe in small accountible forces. With only a few untis like CTU to combat terrorism, that can operate accross the UK. Chief Constables must be free of political nutters like out present PM.

The orignal idea of the police is to up hold the Queens peace. The later drive in the 19th century turned us to crime fighting. Crown dont blame the police for the growth in crime, you should understand that with the introduction of PACE Act and the ever evil CPS saw the greatest jump in crime.

CPS are a whole gov unit. It is they not the police that decide if someone is charged. I have seen with my own eyes them leting very violent criminals go because they will only go to court if they have over 70% chance of a conviction. That is why, if you are arrested say for a assault such as a section 47. This means you have caused someone injuires. But the evidence only rests on your partners say, they will ask you if you would like to admit to common assault (scetion 39). If you say yes, no court case ad a simple caution will be given. This means it will stay on your recored for 5 years then go. In the old days, before CPS, we left it to the courts to decide if one, you are guilty and two which crime it was! PLEASE STOP thinking the police have any say in this. The media often say, "the police let them go, no evidence." WRONG, CPS tell us to let them go. Because they will not trail a case unless they think they will win.

Again, the prisons are full, we hate that. I have let out of police cells rapist because there is no room. The courts need to get a grip and more prisons please.

As a historian i do understand what the past teaches us. I agree get rid of RIPA, get rid of ID cards, and get us out of Europe. YES and many officer agree we should not have the Lisbon Treaty. We are about to see the first European Police come into force, no heard well its coming. A Eurpean Police Force that can act upon an arrest warrant issued by the (the most evil) European Parliament , will be able to come into any European courty and arrest you. They will use the police powers from where you committed your crime and be able to remove from your own country to face trail elsewhere. And get this, no need to inform the local police. THE OFFICERS I WORK WITH ARE VERY concerned with this.

jonsparta said...

Just having a look at Alex Jones's website. Can i just ask? do you believe in what he says?

Personally i would be more worried with China starting a war. That is certainly NATO's point of view, well it was in 1999 when i was last there at SHAPE Command. Also the economic problems we are having are not thr result of some huge conspiracy. Well it might be, if one follows the movements of the Brandenburge group (i think i may have spelt that wrong).

jonsparta said...

Yep, i spelt it wrong...its the Bilderberg Group. A very weird lot, they have meetings in the UK.

bartman said...

jonsparta ... many thanks for your inciteful comments .... yes of course there is a bigger agenda, but remember the police are one of the KEY tools that these Elite use to hide behind to protect their corruption - thats why the elite like the police to battle protestors because it keeps them occupied instead of battling the elite. What we need you to do as a police officer is try and convince your collegues that the people are right about the corruption and the New World Order. Remember they are using you just like Germany did with their police force before the 2nd world war. At the moment making people aware is the key but as time goes on the people AND the police can then battle the elite TOGETHER. Only then will your jobs and everybodys lives become better

Really Fit said...

Do I believe everything Alex Jones says? No, personally not particularly convinced by the new world order stuff. But that is NOT an invitation to discuss these things on this blog - please keep that for another forum!

THE CROWN said...

Sorry, I should have clarified that I do not blame individual police officers for the sad state of affairs in this country; I blame the "policy" i.e the system in which they operate, and those who control it; thus, the CPS, and ultimately the government are to blame.

I believe that MOST police officers go into the job for the right reasons, i.e they want to help fight REAL crime *(not beaurocratic statutes etc) howevever I can only imagine the disappointment and frustration when they realise that the system in which they are forced to operate is a nightmare of red tape, injustice, corruption, and political games. A couple of years ago I even considered joining the police force, so that I could do something positive, to see justice for victims of crime and justice for the perpetrators of crime. HOWEVER, I saw the way the government and CPS has meddled in the system over the last few years, and I thought, I could not become part of that system until the system is fixed and the policy of policing is thus -

"Protect the public
and keep the peace,
respect civil liberties &
freedom of speech
be honoured to serve
and serve with honour
let our law of the land
be COMMON LAW
let our law not be
for profit or politics
Be a Peace Officer
Not a Police Officer
Act, serve and do your duty
for the love of humanity
for the love of peace
Act serve and do your duty
NOT for vengeance nor spite
NOT for power or control
NOT for ego or machismo
NOT for for tyrants and beaurocrats
NOT for politicians and elitists
Pledge allegiance to the crown
but remember:
the crown REPRESENTS the people; therefore:
Pledge allegiance to the PEOPLE."

THE CROWN said...

Parliament have infact been breaking the law by creating fictitious statutes. A statute is an agreement; the people of this country have never agreed to any of these statutes, therefore they have no jurisdiction over us. Remember, we are meant to be living in a democracy, but when did we last get to have a say in the way this country is run??? Therefore, the people of this country have a right to voice their dissatisfaction; we have been taken for fools, as the Big Brother state encroaches, our civil liberties are dishonoured, we are now all made to feel guilty until proven innocent. I blame the the people in charge of the system, for polluting it with a rotten and insepid political agenda.

They have turned justice and honour on it's head, whats right is wrong and whats wrong is right. Policy dictates that dropping litter, smoking in the wrong place at the wrong time, or putting out your bin out on the wrong day, smoking a joint, driving a few miles over the speed limit, or socialising with the 'wrong' people will incriminate us; we are treated as 'criminals' not as a human beings who make petty misdemeanours now and then. And then we see that the perpetrators of domestic violence, child abuse, murder, rape, burglary, muggings, these are REAL criminals, the REAL bad eggs in society, and yet we see time and time again injustice - they just keep getting away with it and being given "another chance". My grandmother was killed in a violent robbery a few years ago, and the guy got 7 months in jail. We had an attempted burglary the other day, I was a lone female and three huge black guys were bashing down my front door with an axe; I was terrified; the cops took 11 hours to turn up (I live in central London).

THE CROWN said...

So... in conclusion...

Is it any wonder that the people of this country despair? Is it any wonder we want to see a different system of policing? A different policy? Not enough jails....well, build some more! (And throw the MPs in too, while your at it) Increasing anti-social behaviour, crime, violence, well....take a look at what values are being promoted in society and change those values. We all know that we have become an amoral, secular, materialistic, ego-driven society, and yet we act surprised at all the anti-social behaviour (and I don't mean legitimate protesting) and crime has shot through the roof. The government has politicised the police force; as we see with FIT, these police officers, whether they realise it or not, are being made to serve the interests of the political elite, they are not, I repeat NOT, serving the interests of the public. We also have evidence to prove that police have gone undercover to act as Agent Provocateurs and disrupt otherwise peaceful demonstrations. I always say to people; be VERY wary of anyone who tries to ignite anarchy or violence, they are most likely acting out a different agenda and being paid to do so. Yes, sometimes, there are genuine anarchists who are just looking for a fight and who revel in the violence and chaos. If they are violent towards the police or the public then I have no problem with them being arrested for assault.

HOWEVER, the treatment of the Fit Watch girls was spectacularly unjustifiable. The officer who put his fingers to her throat reminded me of a Nazi SS Officer. "You vill do exactly as I say or else you vill be shot." When police act so unlawfully, and with such a blatent disregard for freedom of speech, human right, common law, civil liberties, and ultimately democracy, then you know somewhere along the lines, things have gone very, VERY wrong. If you haven't already tried it, I recommend all of you to take a walk around a KGB prison camp in Lithuania, where political dissidents were imprisoned and tortured, and brutally murdered (just for speaking out against the establishment), and I have met with one of the survivors who was imprisoned and tortured, but not killed...
and believe you me, standing in one of the cells, surrounded my the implements that were used to torture innocent men, spatters of blood still staining the walls, it chills you to the bone, it haunts you for the rest of your life, but what is most chilling is that I can see that history is not so far off repleating itself.

For all our sakes, the people must regain faith and trust in the Police, the Police must regain independence from the Government, the Government must quit using to Police to carry out their political agenda, and the people, the police and all other authorities must stand up and refuse to serve the political agenda.

Anonymous said...

@ Jonsparta
'The Crown is a corporation sole that in certain countries of the Commonwealth of Nations, as well as in any provincial or state sub-divisions thereof, represents the legal embodiment of executive government.' (Wiki)

NOT the queen. Maybe you will be done for treason Jonsparta. And don't the CPS (CROWN Prosecution Service) you dislike so much also serve the queen, ie government of the day? Geddit? The Police are already servants of their political masters.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:-

"According to a report in the paper this week the torture took the form of turning a tap on whilst a suspect was taking a piss, the investigators have now admitted there is no foundation to the torture claims, only the theft claims to dfal with now.

27 June 2009 02:54"


HelllOOOHHH there - about the 'report in the paper' you ratars*d CU next Tuesday - please post your link to your alleged non-sense or be damn*d as a troll and a *******

thanks in advance

otherwise we must remain trapped in our demented misbelief that elements of our precious 'police force' is engaged in serious torture as a matter of eff**g rout*ne almost..

Anonymous said...

The link you asked for is:-

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2499526/Torture-Cop-was-running-tap.html

So you can free yourself - although this seems unlikley

Clovis said...

it's interesting that people were so ready to believe the waterboarding story, how it's taken root.

let's not forget that the cops in question were reported by one of their colleagues for questionable acquisition of goods. it's not as though one story in the ever-reliable sun shows them as pure.

but returning to the point of people readily accepting the notion of the met as torturers - could it be because in some measure they already are? the common use of pressure points and violence when arresting people presenting no threat, the tightening of handcuffs well past the point of discomfort, denial of sleep in police stations through sudden concern for the prisoner's safety, arbitrary and disproportionate bail conditions - the overuse of requirements for people to sign every day, for example, almost certainly designed to conflict with people's working arrangements or to effectually prevent them finding work.

these days torture and abuse of powers need not end up with people dead. don't think of abu ghraib but of castlereagh and the six counties - the police use of inhuman and degrading treatment's more reminiscent of what happened to the hooded men in internment than the banal and overt use of torture the americans espouse.

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous 00.54 - read the 'truth' in the Sun link you put up here - it quotes 'police sources' - so it must be true then as the police don't lie do they? Ask the families of Ian Tomlinson

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jun/30/ian-tomlinson-inquiry-g20-protests

and Jean Charles de Menezes

Anonymous said...

Waterboarding not true say - hey! the cops!
From the Sun -
"But senior sources at the Met last night confirmed that the claims were groundless."

senior sources have lots to say.
The man who slugged and pushed Ian Tomlinson 'was probably a member of the public dressed as a policeman.

Ian Blair didn't know that the 'wrong man' was shot until 24 hours had passed.

The senior police have a reliable history of being the lying next Tuesdays.

You say Sun - Sun always speaks the truth.

I believe the earlier reports have not been repudiated, in spite of Mr Clovis' attempts to suggest otherwise.

Does anyone know anything about the officer who blew the whistle?
Why were the victims' statements widely reported long after the real truth was about? i.e. the 'pissing tap' story.
If the pissing tap story is true, then the much later reporting of the waterboarding is absurd - oh - and vice versa.

We are well into decade one of 21st century. And who believes in the ability of the police to tell the truth? One or two, for sure. Clovis seems to be one, if I read his post correctly.
A bit worriesome.

Clovis said...

anon 1246

of course i believe the police are able to tell the truth. i think it's a conscious choice, rather than a different pov, which leads to them lying all the time.

Anonymous said...

fine Clovis

POV versus ability
I stand corrected.

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